Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Ebony tailpiece design.

Tailpiece length (or rather "afterlength" from bridge to tailpiece) is much debated. Many feel a shorter tailpiece will ease the "feel" (not to be confused with string tension) of the strings. So your design is definitely workable. (If you're really ambitious, you could also make a longer version, to test this argument). Anyway, lots of good builders made shortish ones. Mine are typically longer, in the 6" to 7" c'line length. Blanks start off 3/8" thick, then radius the top surface (although I have made the center spine "English" style). I mostly use the keyhole ball capture Todd mentions (bridge spacing). I prefer a raised violin-type "saddle" as the pivot for the (wire) gut, over the Benedetto type tailpiece pivot... no top damage.

Author:	sploughney [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:45 am ]
Post subject:	Ebony tailpiece design.
I'm trying to design an ebony only tailpiece. I like the one I designed, but when I made a template and placed it on my semi hollow build it seems small to me. Is there any rule I should follow as far as minimum thickness, width at the string end, width at the fastener end and width in between? The tail piece I designed is about 4 & 1/8 inches long, 2 & 22/32 at the strings and 1& 5/16 wide at the bottom. With kind of an asymmetrical hourglass shape. I haven't figured our the thickness yet. Anybody have any advice? Thanks everyone.

Author:	Jim Watts [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
I think it's a nice shape, just too short, particularly with the steep fall of on the bass strings. I've only built one archtop and that was years ago, but I'd lengthen the lower half until I had about 3 inches of string length between the saddle and the top of the tail piece. I'm guessing this increases the overall length to approximately 6 inches or so.

Author:	Cush [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
The thickness needs to be a min. of .3" if you plan to use an endpin strap to anchor it. Drilling the holes for the stap attachment can be tricky. How you anchor it to the body may effect the thickness you will need to use.

Author:	the Padma [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
and how are the strings attached for quick and easy replacement when one breaks on stage? Hmmm? Design the form to fit the function. Then you can mess with the esthetics of shape.

Author:	cphanna [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
Padma gave you a good insight. I know a lot of folks load the strings with the ball ends captured in routed holes on the bottom and the strings exiting the top surface. I tried this with my first tailpiece and it didn't work for me. Either my holes were too shallow or my top was too curvaceous. The ball ends touched my top. In any event, I made a new tailpiece with a top-loading design for the strings. They exit through holes drilled in from the edge that faces the bridge. That worked great for me. What we are saying is that you must factor those things into your design, which is very cool up to this point. I would hate to see it fail you, so plan your string paths out carefully. Whether bottom or top loading, the strings will follow a straight line to the bridge saddle, and they will angle your tailpiece accordingly, so you need to know where they will exit the tailpiece, what path the strings are going to follow once they have exited and which way this will deflect your tailpiece--up, down, or straight. The photo shows how I solved my problem. That was just my fix--probably not yours. Whatever works for you will be great. Patrick

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Author:	nyazzip [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
cphanna that looks like a beefy tailpiece...what role in sound does an archtop tailpiece play? i understand that in orchestral stringed instruments it is considered to be important- too much mass and volume suffers, too little mass and there is insufficient dampening and wolf notes, etc....

Author:	Cush [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
The fulcrum under the tailpiece will control the angle and height of the tailpiece so plan for this as well.

Author:	ernie [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
I/ve made a sample A.top tailpiece from OO , so keep those photos of tailpieces coming .I like your maccasar design todd..Yes the previous one does look beefy. From my perspective on working on vln family instruments it seems that with woods like ebony/rosewood /boxwood.You can make a slimmer and more elegant design without sacrificing tone. Also using old fashioned gut (harder to install) instead of plastique for the tailpiece wire seems to improve the tone of vln family instruments. But I/ve never done it on an A.top.

Author:	Cush [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
For guitar the tailpiece strap should be a steel cable wrapped in a nylon sleeve with knurled brass ends. The nylon ones strech a lot. The op wants to put the tailpiece on a semi hollow body guitar, so if a strap attachment is the plan, a short strap will be needed. With the high string tension of steel strings, I don't think a gut strap is the way to go.

Author:	Dave Stewart [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
Tailpiece length (or rather "afterlength" from bridge to tailpiece) is much debated. Many feel a shorter tailpiece will ease the "feel" (not to be confused with string tension) of the strings. So your design is definitely workable. (If you're really ambitious, you could also make a longer version, to test this argument). Anyway, lots of good builders made shortish ones. Mine are typically longer, in the 6" to 7" c'line length. Blanks start off 3/8" thick, then radius the top surface (although I have made the center spine "English" style). I mostly use the keyhole ball capture Todd mentions (bridge spacing). I prefer a raised violin-type "saddle" as the pivot for the (wire) gut, over the Benedetto type tailpiece pivot... no top damage.

Author:	sploughney [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
The progress I've made so far in the tailpiece. Thanks for all the info and encouragement, everyone.

Author:	Terence Kennedy [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
Dave Stewart wrote: Tailpiece length (or rather "afterlength" from bridge to tailpiece) is much debated. Many feel a shorter tailpiece will ease the "feel" (not to be confused with string tension) of the strings. So your design is definitely workable. (If you're really ambitious, you could also make a longer version, to test this argument). Anyway, lots of good builders made shortish ones. Mine are typically longer, in the 6" to 7" c'line length. Blanks start off 3/8" thick, then radius the top surface (although I have made the center spine "English" style). I mostly use the keyhole ball capture Todd mentions (bridge spacing). I prefer a raised violin-type "saddle" as the pivot for the (wire) gut, over the Benedetto type tailpiece pivot... no top damage. I love that one with the crease down the center Dave. Did you freehand shape that? I'll probably steal that design.

Author:	sploughney [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
Mostly finished with the tailpiece and the bridge

Author:	nyazzip [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
i retract my comments, now that i see you are using a 10 lb bridge... tailpiece design=moot, aside from aesthetics. looks nice

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Author:	Dave Stewart [ Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
Terence Kennedy wrote: I love that one with the crease down the center Dave. Did you freehand shape that? I'll probably steal that design. No problem Terence... it's just a variation on the fairly common violin design. The bevels are freehand. Best to make a prototype sample as the key to that one is the underside troughs for the adjusters are very close to breaking through the top beveled surface.

Author:	ernie [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
Thanks for pics I think their called hill style tailpieces. where do you get the plastic from ?? or is it DIY??

Author:	Dave Stewart [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
I think you're right Ernie. The plastic wrapped wire tailguts (if that's what you mean) are avail in various lengths... Stewmac / LMI

Author:	ernie [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ebony tailpiece design.
Thanks dave, I like your design , My first OO tailpiece looks like a hybrid between / a cello / gtr tailpiece.that/s what happens when you play with vlns haha. I might use a cello plastic tailwire , but don/t know if it/s strong enough for 6 str. as it/s only plastique. I saw a fancy ebony tailpiece that used brass/metal inserts to keep the ball ends off the top of the gtr.Just google archtop ebony wood tailpiece.Like the padma says google is your friend ??